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I did not post my Etsy or Artfire site because I fear retaliation from Etsy, that speaks volumes. That is a good reason to open your own website and not be concerned about what a venue will do. But to lump Artfire and Etsy together is ridiculous.
I sell on both, I have successful sales on both, they are nothing alike. And by the way, I do make my living from my art. It can be done. Yes, we are passionate… as much as the ArtFire team is. They do care and they do love what they do. They are serious business people and they are creating this hybrid space where no one has ever gone before. You know, when people start selling what they make online, the vast majority does not realize what it takes to do this.
Things change quickly online even truer these days compared to just 5 years ago. By the time we create our goods, and wear all the hats as all micro-entrepreneurs do , there is no way we can keep up on all that is going on when it comes to selling online.
But for setting up and selling online quickly without needing any knowledge what-so-ever, ArtFire is by far the most educational and well thought out hybrid webhost. We are all strong supporters of Artfire. Shop owners had their real names published without their permission. Apparently, they learned nothing from the fiasco 6 months earlier. They still are. In all three events, they cancelled, banned and booted shop owners that were outraged enough to speak up about it.
Members have become afraid to voice their opinion on the forums as shops are often closed at the whim of admin, presumably between their taking turns videoing each other dancing and playing with plushy toys. Speaking of plushy toys.
You cannot call Etsy. They have a plushy phone booth photo on their blog. Customer service must be handled through the proper channels. Email again. Complain in the forum. Get told in said forum that you cannot discuss email with Etsy admin, even if you have never received any. So Steve, I absolutely agree with the title of your post. Etsy stores are at a disadvantage. As for the rest of the title, the closest you will come to having your own domain is having a studio on ArtFire.
Roxi Yes, I had heard about these fiascos being alluded to on the forums but not in so much detail. Perhaps people are deathly afraid of getting banned so there is very little mention about this. I also agree with your last statement about Artfire, but services like BigCommerce will handle all of the store backend and front end stuff for you AND allow you to have your own domain and own all of your URLs.
However, the service does cost more at 25 a month. Right now Artfire is a great deal but I suspect that that will have to change later. When I subscribed to this discussion I had no idea what to expect! A few disclaimers before I wade back in. I do not work for any of the sites listed. I AM a hobbyist crafter who has friends that make a living selling handcrafted items.
I make my living helping solopreneurs and micro businesses understand finances, grow their profits and laugh. I agree Etsy has basically turned into EBay with a thin veneer of handcrafted to fool the unsuspecting. However Etsy started out with a very different mission, one that appears to be similar to ArtFire. I think most posters here would agree that Etsy is a prime example of that. Unfortunately unless you own the majority shares of the company in question it can happen to any company.
The current owners may want to move on, their investors start demanding more, the current owners need more capital and give up majority stake… I could go on all night. The message I took away from the original discussion was twofold.
I would add even if that basket is your own site. Diversifying sales channels is as important as diversifying a stock portfolio. Second understand the risks you are taking while leveraging the benefits. As long as a venue is truly profitable for you, keep using.
But be ready in case you have the carpet pulled out from under you. When I shop at Ebay or Etsy, I never know what to expect. Agree about your statement about diversification. Most larger shops have presences on Amazon, and Ebay in addition to their main site.
I have 3 studios there in addition to my own website too. I am learning to keep my site updated myself, but it is tons easier to list my items to sell in my ArtFire studios. I have dealt with site outages for my main website that have been very frustrating.
With my son deployed in Iraq this year, one outage lasted for days because he was not able to access things to do the fix. I have learned SO much about writing my descriptions and whatever else I need to do to get products ranking high on search engines from the tutorials available, and forums with seller workshops where I can get personal guidance and critiques if I want them.
Most of my sales have come from off site searches and non registered customers. It has been much easier to get sales through my ArtFire studios than from my own website, so I am now using my own site more to keep information about my teaching and lecturing, and have links to my ArtFire studios for my sales. Just another happy ArtFire seller…. Sue Patchtique Your statements are actually what I expected to hear about when I first write this article.
The reason those sites are hard to maintain is because you have to manage your server in addition to your site and that is not for everyone. With Bigcommerce, you can always issue redirects from all of your pages to your new site and transition to a different platform if necessary.
Steve, interesting discussion. I used to sell on Etsy, Artfire and Zibbet all temporarily closed due to fire and death. But I think many of us are a bit hesitant to take on the responsibility because we fear we might muck it up despite your assurances to the contrary.
I hope that everything turns out well and that you will be up and running soon enough. Very interesting discussions. I do understand that having your own website is the only way to completely control your own online presence.
However, many, if not most of us are more interested in just making our stuff, not worrying about website building. Also, there is the issue of trying to build any kind of SEO presence online when you are brand new.
Etsy and eBay are household names and generate huge amounts of built in traffic for newcomers. Artfire provides education that can be used down the road when and if you decide to become completely independent.
In the meantime, every seller should purchase their own domain name and then forward it to whatever venue they are using. Then at least, if that venue stops working for you, with one click you can forward the domain to another venue. For me ArtFire has been hundreds of times more successful in terms of profit than my stand alone website. Oddly, Etsy was the exact reverse. I made a LOT of sales but very little actually ended up in my pocket.
I thought your article was great, and wow! I just wanted to let you know that all Artfire studios now have a new look and a new shopping cart. If you go to any Artfire studio you will see the new look. Artfire sellers can now accept ProPay, but there is a fee for any seller that wants to offer ProPay as a payment option that will have to be paid by the seller. For some reason Etsy seems more like a community, more focused on presenting the kinds of things I am looking for, easier to communicate with the sellers, seems to have more friendly and approachable sellers, and is easier for me to find them by searching and browsing.
Every business should have a well designed website today in order for them to compete with other online businesses. Driving more people to visit your site will definitely make you earn more money.
I agree with you that having your own site is definitely the way to go long-term. Overall, someone mentioned above that I totally agree with, i. Having your own site plus utilizing the different platforms Amazon, Ebay, etsy, artfire would be a balanced approach that could get your sales sail through…. There are advantages and disadvantages to using an established selling platform.
I feel that you will do better financially having your own site if you have the resources and ability to advertise your site and drive a suitable amount of targeted traffic to your site. If any of the above is a problem for you I suggest you stick with the already established selling platform or you will fail miserably. Just my opinion, of coarse. I just registered my domain name and am searching for a free website shop template to open my own website with, and minimal monthly fees.
I just located another one that seems as though it will upload all my date from etsy into a free webshop template called makerspot. Leanna Richmond, my advice would be to not have duplicate content on your own website. If you have the same content on your website as your Etsy shop your website products will probably not show up on Google.
If your website is not found within the first two or maybe first three pages of the search engines nobody will ever visit your website unless you spend a lot of time and effort marketing your website. Jim There is so much more to search engine optimization than just posting different and unique content.
If all it took to rank in search was the right title, meta and content tags then everyone would be on the front page. The fact is that there are only 10 spots on the front page and if you use Artfire you are only building SEO juice for Artfire and not your own shop.
Who knows if Artfire will ever become like Etsy over time. Yes, I understanding what you are saying about SEO. My 2 websites and my Artfire products all rank within the first 12 positions on Google for most keyword search terms. I actually disagree with you about only building SEO juice for Artfire rather than your own shop.
My pack of 4 photo note cards also came up for that same keyword search term and it ranked 3. In addition to those two items showing up in the same search my leaning towering mast photo note card ranked 2.
As a bonus, my CameramanJim blog also came up in the same search results and was ranked 4. My website InexpensiveWebsiteCritiques ranked 1 and my Artfire JimJuris2 studio with all of my product listings ranks 2.
I was only trying to explain to Leanna that she can not just throw up a website and expect it to rank well in the search engines, especially without a lot of knowledge about SEO.
Jim Ah ok. The keyword terms that you are ranking for are extremely long tail keywords. Every site will rank 1 or on the front page for some search or another. However, I doubt that these terms get that many searches per day. While targeting long tail search is a good strategy as well, getting ranked for highly searched keyword terms is what usually leads to higher sales.
Good thing I made my own website even if I have an Etsy shop. They all dropped and flat lined. I am currently in the middle of doing all the suggested tips from the admin. That is something I do not experience in having my own website not unless Paypal will start their own drama.
So after I have changed what needed to be changed in my Etsy shop, I am going to focus more on my own website. It has been a good one, nice healthy debate. Fyi I do have my own domain and you can search scarlet impressions on google, my own site comes first followed by artfire even though my own site is just a landing page it is there.
I just never saw the point in maintaining a full blown e-commerce site on my own when artfire has everything. Someone mentioned the products you sell too, for me that certainly is a factor I make lampwork beads, what better place to be than among a community of people that make jewellery.
According to Google Analytics my visits have increased since the new seller studio look that was launched by Artfire on August 5th.
As of a couple of days ago, the average number of daily visits has remained above the average number of daily visits before the new studio look. In one of my studios I just removed my studio announcement from the item pages and I like the look of the pages without the studio announcement.
My other studio has featured items and a studio announcement. It is nice to be able to customize the look of your Artfire studio. I could not agree with you more.
I have never had a sale off my Etsy shop, but they happen on my own site. I have complete control there over display and everything else associated with my own shop.
People on Etsy are too competitive.. Its true. I had a seller attack me on Etsy and she said I was stealing her design. She was actually stealing designs off of pintrest. Etsy just shut my listing down. I am starting my own website this october. So excited. That seller was an absolute nut case. I am going to put all of her designs on my own website and there wont be a thing she can do about it.
Love revenge!!! Love the story, logo. OK I had a successful store on Etsy selling thousands a month, after Etsy suspended my account because some items did not meet the handmade criteria.
True some of my headbands I use brooches or anything with bling bling and create a beautiful headband. After they closed down I decided WHO needs Etsy and started my own but it is painfully expensive, yes you get your online store and then what, without SEO your store is just another fish in the ocean.
SO I am now selling at Artfire. You can easily do a better job getting discovered online than Etsy does for you. You just have to know what you are doing. They have ZERO support what so ever. I have emails sent to assorted etsy staff that have gone unanswered other than auto responders for well over a year.
Like it or lump it. Keep customers? I think they flunked. Also I see mentioned about Artfire doing away with the free shops. They only did that as a fledgling business to try to bring in some new people.
And why should it? Where can you sell to the entire world no less, for free? Besides, part of their reasoning for doing away with that is the sheer number of people who would park a few items then totally ignore the shop. No promoting, no adding anything new. It hurts the entire site to have dead unattended shops like that. Now I was slow to up on board over there.
My thinking was they charge rent. No motivation at all for me to sell. And I have my own site I pay rent for. They DO care. They have marketing people who know their stuff and work tirelessly to improve SEO, and give us sellers the best tools. It is in their best interest to make it a good venue to sell. Otherwise their renters would move out. As for the advice here to build your own? Along with several very UN appreciated pop ups in my face about it. Sure your the star of your own show.
If your trying to be found, you need to be one ant in a huge ant hill. Yea your one of millions but… much more likely of being seen than as a single little ant all alone.
Personal sites are good to have. When Artfire gets bit by the stupid bug, and I have no doubt at some point it may happen. Seems to happen to all good sites. Then I can simply change my own site accordingly. No worries about my business cards either. Visit my site. Where I am currently selling is right there. But as for selling? If you know what you are doing, your own online store will be able to get much more traffic that your Etsy or Ebay listings. So as a beginner, Etsy and Ebay are probably good ways to dip your toes into the water but the best long term solution is to own your own shop.
I would be willing to bet that my tiny little online store gets more traffic than the majority of ebay, etsy stores out there but feel free to prove me wrong.
Personal experience. A lot of it. Do you really want me to spell it out here and put a big long pin in your bubble for all to see? My online store sells thousands compared to the 7 or 8 hundred that my ebay store sells. I do have a niche.
I started SatinCordandMore. I have been doing it for 10 years, but my website was a success after a few months. If you have a niche product and know your keywords, etc, you can do it! As for etsy, I rolled out a few sales 6 or 7 years ago, but that went dry quick, so I vacated.
I think a lot of it depends on your product and the need or craze for it. With just a little bit of extra work and a willingness to learn my market, which is what any serious business owner should do, I get tens of thousands of visitors per month.
That may not be the millions that Etsy gets, but I would way rather have those thousands of hits of TARGETED traffic, people who have found me because they were actually searching for the things I offer, than the few crumbs that Etsy can throw my way from their millions of hits. I just treat it as the business tool that it is, not as my entire business.
Etsy owns that shop, not me. What do you recommend in my situation? Hi Grace, I commend you for getting started so early! If you want to dip your toes in the water with online selling, then by all means start with Etsy. You cannot legally sign up on etsy and sell there or anywhere else.
Any sale is a legal contract which you cannot engage in until you turn Now if you have an adult running things who is in charge of the money and so on, then fantastic! Be a great learning experience. Be sure you mention this in your profile somewhere.
Thanks for this very informative article. I have been toying with the idea of opening an Etsy or similar store but am now seriously considering just doing my own e-commerce site. How do you recommend I approach SEO? Any specific recommendations? Thanks for your time. I think people have to come to a decision about what their longterm goals are for their business and how much their willing to stake for it.
I dislike Etsy. They close down shops complaining that you are not listing correctly, yet leave other shops on there that are listing the same exact item or item that you can tell are not handmade and or fake items. A big fraud if you ask me. Etsy is not right for everyone… and building a fully-functional website can be tough too. There are a bunch of Facebook shop applications that let you build stores right inside of your Facebook business page check out ShopTab.
Great article, I found this awhile ago when helping my sister research about setting up a web store. Her needs were really simple, she just wanted an online store to post some products and to be able to accept credit cards. Most of the existing stuff was too expensive or complicated for what she needed. So I built a really simple web app for her to do that. Thanks and good luck everyone! George, I took a look at your bulavard venue, and from what I saw I think that it is great.
I like the simple look of your site. Do you have a sample store that a potential seller could look at? I would like to see an example of what my store would look like before I signed up. One thing that may work against you and your site sellers is the spelling of your site domain name. When people ask a person where they sell online, and they say boulevard, and the person that they told goes to visit the site, they will not be able to find your site.
Or, they will find something else, because they did not use the correct spelling when they tried to visit your site. Interesting thoughts — never really considered the disadvantages of Etsy. WooCommerce and other eCommerce platforms seem to be a bit more work, but perhaps they are worth it in the long run.
This article is one-sided. I have my own websites and am a qualified web designer. I also have stores on places like Etsy, Zazzle etc. They ALL have their good and bad. I use my websites to drive traffic to those stores as well as other income revenues. Far back in this thread I posted how etsy got stupid and greedy then I found Artfire.
Well Artfire got stupid and greedy as well now. Ads suddenly appeared all over everyones listings. And not off to the side where you know they are ads, but in with the descriptions.
Want to see my beautiful hand made pen?
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